Take the 2-minute tour ×
Arqade is a question and answer site for passionate videogamers on all platforms. It's 100% free, no registration required.

Most teams on ranked games involve a jungler. It gives the team three advantages over non jungling teams:

  1. More team experience - a solo laner and a jungler will be a higher average level than two players in a single lane.
  2. More team gold - same as experience, the solo laner can last hit more minions and if your jungler is killing dragon then the benefits can be quite large.
  3. Ganking potential - freedom to gank any lane, forces players to be more defensive, makes teams spend more money on wards.

In my opinion, if the enemy has a jungler, a great idea is to pick an anti jungler. Someone with steal, shaco, eve are ideal. This can be even more effective than having a jungler on your team too because:

  1. Killing the enemy jungler usually means you can pick your enemy off when they are extremely vulnerable - easy first blood
  2. Stealing a buff early can totally ruin a junglers pace, giving your whole team the advantage

The downsides are:

  1. You are behind enemy lines, a predictable anti jungle/first blood attempt will have the exact opposite effect of what you had hoped for.
  2. It the jungler is a higher level than you, you are going to have a hard time countering them.
  3. You will probably struggle in lane if you get killed in the enemy jungle, putting you at a huge disadvantage.

Now the questions I want to know are:

  • Is it really worth the risk?
  • What are the best characters and set ups to be using for counter jungling?
  • What are the best methods of countering an enemy jungler?
share|improve this question
    
You shouldn't be playing ranked games without a jungler, but counter-jungling only makes sense in 3v3. In 5v5 ranked games counter-jungling will not work because the jungler's team is likely backing them in the early game where a gank is possible. –  Sadly Not Mar 23 '11 at 15:49
add comment

3 Answers

up vote 6 down vote accepted

Yes, it's worth it to pick another jungler. It does not necessarily have to be a counter-pick though, which probably needs some explanation:

  • The advantages you gave for having a jungler hold for your team as well.
  • What you labelled as 'more effective' does not really require a jungler at all (coordinate your team to kill the enemy jungler [wards!] or steal a buff)
  • Your downsides are too situation dependent:
    1. If behind enemy lines, you better know what you're doing. You have to be sure that your champ can live up to the enemy jungler and you have to make double sure that all other enemies are on their lanes. While it is a downside, it's one for which the risk can be dealt with.
    2. If their jungler is higher level than you, then either you have to improve your jungling, or you got killed/hindered before. Shouldn't happen for the first creep round, unless someone messed up their early game (see below)
    3. same as 1. Do not get killed in the enemy jungle. The enemy jungler shouldn't be able to kill you (or you shouldn't enter his lair!) and if you get ganked it's your fault for losing track of your enemies. If you suspect only a single enemy missing that might come for you, you better be on your way back to your jungle.

Anyways, double jungle teams are quite a common thing, because neither team wants to ignore the advantages gained by having a jungler. However, it also means that your team should know how to deal with that situation. Here's a few tips for general two-junglers-play:

  • Prepare for more ganks on both sides. For both junglers it's usually safer to gank, than to visit the other side's forest.
  • Make your jungle starting save. Not getting harassed while you get your first buff is extremely important. The team should realize this and protect you. Place your mates into the forest access points near the river to watch out for early ganks. Only let them leave, once the buff is save.
  • Of course, you can turn this around too and try to gank the enemy jungler with your team. Not just a single counter-picked champ, but 2+ champs.

As you can see, two junglers are possible, do make sense, and generally lead to very fast and intensive gameplay. Beware on random groups though, as a two-jungler game demands a lot more from all players and failure is easy to achieve in that setting.

share|improve this answer
add comment

Is it really worth the risk?

It honestly depends on the enemy team comp.

If you're asking if it's worth it to run with 1 jungler on each team, then absolutely. The benefits of having a jungler far outweigh that of not. You boost the xp of two people, as well as the monetary gain of the whole team. Additionally, you bring the element of surprise by keeping their two solo lanes in fear of an early gank. Of course, this all applies to your team as well. However, the benefits generally far outweigh the alternative to having two double lanes and attempting to get an early push on one while still leaving your mid lane vulnerable and your jungle unoccupied.

If you're asking if it's worth to actively harass the other team's jungler, then it's debatable. A well composed team in 5v5 with a jungler starting at blue will have at least 4 of their 5 players there expecting to counter the early gank. If the enemy starts at small golems or wraiths instead of blue/wolves, it's generally not worth the risk pushing up that far into enemy territory to try for a first blood.

What are the best characters and set ups to be using for counter jungling?

Any character with stealth in a lane is a great choice to scout and gank a jungler. Eve and Twitch (or a patient Teemo) with their extended stealth (vs. Shaco) make for great players that can pick off low health junglers. Unfortunately, as these characters tend to be carries, by leaving the lane you tend to deny yourself XP gain and money for the chance at a kill.

Beefier characters like Rammus and Udyr who have high mobility, good survival, and disables make for great counter junglers, and generally are not as affected by leaving their lane/jungle to pursue a kill.

Additionally, support characters who take Clairvoyance can play the psychological harassment game, placing CV down in predictable jungle spots and causing the jungler to back off, whether or not you're actually pursuing a kill. On the same note, putting a ward down in plain sight of a jungler will often prevent them from coming back. This is particularly useful on either blue buff, where the jungler is the most vulnerable.

Lastly, if your jungler has their timing down and a little luck, stealing an early blue or red buff through a well placed smite can actually hurt the jungler just as much as a death if you know you can't kill them. This can be accomplished through smart use of Clairvoyance or pre-placed wards.

What are the best methods of countering an enemy jungler?

I covered a bit of that above, but the one thing you should keep in mind when attempting a pure jungle gank is that you are just as likely to get counter ganked right back, due to the position you've put yourself in and the attention you've drawn.

share|improve this answer
add comment

Counter Jungling is a great way to help out the team (exp and gold), get firstblood, preventing ganks, and of course ganking.

The best counter jungler, in my opinion, is Evelynn.

Most junglers start at Golem to get the blue buff, and most finish Golem with very little HP remaining. What is better than a champ that not only is not seen coming, since she can go invisible at level 1 but also stuns when coming out of stealth. That Nunu, Udyr, or Warwick have very little chance getting away, especially if you have ignite and/or ignite.

Since it is the jungler's duty to ward specific parts of the jungle this helps incoming ganks from junglers or MIA's (M issing I n A ction) from the other team, and counter ganking them. Eve is perfect for this task cause she can't be seen coming unless Oracle or Pink Wards are purchased. If the enemy team is buying Oracle it is good since they are wasting 400 gold and still doesn't make Eve useless.

Last, Eve is a great ganker, in combination with her allies they can get a definite kill on squishy champs e.g. Teemo, Ashe...

So, yes, Counter Jungling is viable and some people may say that Eve can't jungle but she can and especially if you are able to get FirstBlood that extra 400 gold can help since you will be able to buy something and also you will have the Golem (Blue) buff since you killed their jungler right after he did it, which makes jungling a breeze.

share|improve this answer
add comment

Your Answer

 
discard

By posting your answer, you agree to the privacy policy and terms of service.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.