How to counter marine rush as a protoss on maps with huge ramps like Scrap Station?

Question

Assuming that I scout well and find out that my opponent is going for mass marines early on (no gas, reactors), I still seem completely unable to counter marines when they come at me too early. My sentries die immediately, so Guardian Shield isn't up for really long. It's impossible to forcefield the ramp because it's too huge. I usually have not enough stalkers to hold.

I surely do something wrong, but I hope this not micro (I'm terrible at it).

(I hope this is not a duplicate, but I found no reply other than:

• FF your ramp: I'm talking about huge ramps like Scrap Station's
• Collossi : I'm talking about a marine rush, I'd have no way to rush this much to collosus.
• Guardian shield + stalkers is a good answer, but how do I keep my sentries alive? With zealots => less stalkers...

)

EDIT: some good looking answers were provided, but some of them collide. I'll have to try several of them but have not too much time to do so currently. My list looks like this:

• choking the base entrance
• more units from 2 or 3 gateways + cannons (not sure about the order...)
• more sentry-focused army and using FF to create chokes

EDIT: TESTS RESULTS

Ok, I had some time to make some tests this week-end, although not real in-game tests. I just used the UnitTest map.

• zealots alone are good enough in small numbers against a mineral equivalent number of marines, but only in open spaces (not a ramp).
• should you add a sentry (with guardian shield), your army is allowed to be smaller than your opponent's.
• stalkers need an arc and a guardian shield to be really effective without micro.

Anyhow, the good answer is really to just have stuff to defend, it seems.

Answer 1

So long answers,...

tharibo, the MAIN counter is to have ENOUGH army. If he bring 10 marines but you have 2 sentries 2 zealots - you will die in any case.

If you detected mass marines - don't worry too much. I play mostly Terran and last time (gold/platinum) my experience tells me: mass marines is a cheese. If you detected that in time (while reactors are been build) that is easy way to make a good early game.

Instead of talking what to do, I will tell you what NOT to do:

1. don't do early expand (it's clear, but still that is on the 1st place);
2. don't afraid to build assimilators (you will need gas for sentries/stalkers);
3. don't build 4 gateways (no time and there is no real value in that);

ok, let's talk What to do:

1. Build forge;
2. Build 2 cannons on the choke point (not more, don't over invest: you need to have a mobile army);
3. get some zealots and put them close to cannons. Once marines began to shoot cannons - your zealots will attack marines: usually, he will lose much more then 3 marines to kill the 1st cannon;

4. if you managed to have a few sentries - put FF behind the marines so they won't be able to retreat and will die quickly.

5. what next? EXPAND! Don't harass opponent.

Actually, this 'todo' list is very easy to do... and is very soft for any changes. After getting 4-6 zealots - add stalkers, etc...

Don't forget to continue scouting your opponent: if you scouted 2 rax 1 tech lab another reactored and believe he is going for mass marines, ... your opponent can easily switch to hellions, etc...

Answer 2

First you need to determine how all-in it is. If he is bring SCVs you should definitely pull probes yourself. A few probes to clog up the ramp can help anyway.

I would NOT get more sentries because they take a long time to build and you need as many real units as possible. Guardian Shield is so good against marines that you should try to get a few though. I usually get 1-3 sentries early so they have time to save energy, and if I scout mass marines than I switch to all zealot stalker. I like about 2-1 stalker-zealot ratio.

Make sure you have your zealots in front.

+1 armor is really good against marines. A cannon can also help if you think they are really going all out 1 base marine push.

Finally, stalkers can kite marines (i.e. they are faster and have more range). So if you see the marines coming send out your stalkers and shoot the marines and then run away as they approach you. If it gets desperate you can continue to do this within your base.

Answer 3

Zealots (w/charge) to Colossi. Zealots take care of marines in a 2-1 ratio. It's a bit scary in the beginning of the game where zealots are fairly "kitable".

If you prefer, trickle in some dark templar instead of colossi. They'll waste scans one by one. I don't even bother with sentries primarily because if I'm heavy with zealots, there is no point to the sentry (guardian shield does not cover them in melee combat from what I understand), and force field generally isn't that effective (unless you are really able to separate their forces) Updated: As long as you've got your zealots within the guardian shield, you'll reduce the damage being done. Sentries do get torn up pretty quickly, so you'll have to weigh that against moving up the tech tree (High Templar, Collossi) against the early battle. Typically, I still find that just having lots of zealots (a token stalker is often good enough to discourage kiting) is enough for the first battle, but you'll have to move onto something more effective. MMM is effective the entire game, so get used to it.

I almost always send three zealots out of a double gate opening to greet my terran friends. Constant pressure will lower the chances you'll be surprised by a mass of marines. (provided you're not running your units against a wall)

Answer 4

If you scout it in advance, you can try to focus on just more sentries. Even large ramps can be covered by 2 to 3 force fields - hell, enough force fields can also block open terrain, not just ramps.

Just build more and more sentries until you have enough to maintain a force field wall for a long time, and then you have a chance to advance your tech / enlarge your army quietly.

Finally, good force field placement can either (1) trap a small part of his army on your side of the wall, susceptible to sentry attacks, or (2) allow the sentries to shoot from above without being spotted, if they get too close.

Answer 5

UPDATE: Another tactic that would be useful, is to build a choke point at your base with gateways,pylons and your cybernatics core. After a handful of his units get in, drop a force field in front of it cutting off his units in your base from the rest of his squad.

Your main problem sounds like you're expanding too quickly. 1 Gate FE is a good tactic - but not if your opponent rushes you. You should be going for two or three gate expand, and then expanding. If you expand before you have enough units to deal with the Rush - you're going to fail.

Stalkers + Sentries are excellent at stopping Marines - but you need to be using force field. Being able to use force field to split up your opponents Army is key to winning with Protoss. With it you can take down armies which outnumber you 3-1 - split up your opponents army so that only a small group of them can attack you at anyone time. If you are able to micro the force fields well enough (and have enough sentries) you can ensure that you are never in combat with more then a handful of your opponents units - which will allow you to wipe them off the field (with focus fire) before they have a change to even scratch your units.

This video is a good example of how effective force fields are:

However, that obviously is micro intensive (and you may have trouble getting enough units due to the rush) - but you need to improve your Micro at some point. Micro and Macro are the most important things to being a successful Starcraft player.

A less micro intensive strategy is also involving Sentries and Stalkers, but instead of splitting of your opponents forces - just keep them at the bottom of your ramp. Block it off with force field, and then pick off his Marines with Stalkers. If he scans you - just move your units back out of the range of his marines, and keep throwing down force field. Eventually he'll run out of scans. After you amass enough units, and he's been weakened - expand and counter-attack!

Adding on to the above, consider using warp prisms. Load them up with some Zealots and Sentries, drop them onto your enemies mineral lines, then drop down force fields so that his SCVs are trapped with your Zealots - if all his units are busy being useless at your base (due to your force fields) you'll easily take out all of his workers - and you can do some serious damage to his base before he manages to get his marines there - you'll probably force him to lift off, slowing him down even more. Heck, you can even force field off the ramp to his base like your doing at your own so you can tear apart his supply depots in peace.

Just remember - the more units he has at your base, the less he has at his own - and if he's rushing you, chances are his base is empty.