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In the quest: "In my Time of Need"

Saadia claims:

  • "I am a noble of House Suda in Hammerfell."
  • "The Alik'r are assassins in the employ of the Aldmeri Dominion."

Kematu claims:

  • Saadia is known for constantly changing her name.
  • Saadia is wanted by the noble houses of Taneth for treason.
  • "She sold the city out to the Aldmeri Dominion. Were it not for her betrayal, Taneth could have held its ground in the war."

Who's telling the truth? How is it possible to confirm their claims?

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Go to Hammerfall and ask the House of Suda. Saadia and Kematu will probably have escaped by then so go ahead and kill both to be safe... –  MaskedPlant Feb 23 '12 at 20:37
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7 Answers

up vote 20 down vote accepted

The purpose of this quest I think is to make you question which is the right option to take.

It is intentionally unclear.


My logic was this:

  • The Alik'r were shunned by Whiterun, that's saying something. Perhaps they have a bad reputation for being dirty mercenaries.
  • It is more likely that an individual spoke out against an organization rather than one individual causing the fall of Taneth.
    • The Aldmeri have always been able to win fights without the assistance of individuals, especially noble women, who may or may not have access to military secrets.
  • If she had caused the downfall of Taneth, why would she hide outside of Aldmeri territory? She could be easily protected elsewhere.

I did see this though:

If you accept Kematu's request and help him capture Saadia, you may encounter a group of Thalmor Justiciars in the wild that carry a Justiciar Execution Order with your race and name. This may indicate that Kematu might have been telling the truth and that Saadia truly was a traitor (source needed, Justiciar Execution Orders are normally issued because of the assault on the Thalmor Embassy in the main questline).

Source: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/In_My_Time_of_Need

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@Grok Not sure if the Justiciars are related to that choice. They may be related to the quest though. I was attacked by a group of them, and hadn't done the Embassy, and had sided with Saadia. Was wondering why they attacked me at all, since I hadn't done anything obvious against the Thalmor yet. –  Gabe Willard Feb 23 '12 at 21:13
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well if she did help the thalmor and you helped Kematu then it makes sense that the justicars wanted to stop you, but why does justiciars imply that Kematu was lying? The rest of your points make a lot of sense though –  z - Feb 23 '12 at 22:20
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However, you must consider that the Alik'r have curved swords. Curved. Swords. –  brymck Feb 24 '12 at 1:45
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@Andy_Vulhop Using the official means to complete every and any task is stupid for every great empire, especially if it concerns breaking in another Hold to make justice as they understand it. How would you like someone breaking in your house and punishing your children? They can be right but it's disrespectful. On the other hand, were they killed by 'regular' murderers this wouldn't enrage you politically. –  Renan Feb 25 '12 at 22:35
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@Andy_Vulhop The Aldmeri never imposed their judicial system to the defeated Holds. Although they are allowed to hunt down worshippers of Talos, they do not hold any authority to enforce local laws or their own in Skyrim. Keep in mind the Aldmeri agreed to sign a peace treaty that is of great advantage but doesn't grant unlimited powers. –  Renan Feb 28 '12 at 21:41
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Kematu might be telling the truth

  1. The first time you talk to Saadia, she pulls a knife on you. While this may seem like an act of desperate defiance, it may hint at a violent and unpredictable personality.
  2. Saadia seems hesitant to explain the full situation, while Kematu elaborates on it fully. Is Saadia's reticence due to her guilt?
  3. The man you can free from jail seems strangely honourable, saying he has shamed his companions and wants to begin anew.
  4. If Kematu really was an assassin, why paralyse her at the end of the quest - why not just stab her and be done with it? He also mentions justice, and taking her into custody, and implies that Saadia will face a trial back in Hammerfell rather than swift execution. All this points to him and his warriors being enforcers rather than assassins.
  5. Kematu's opening line - "We can avoid any more bloodshed." And his closing lines which infer that Saadia is known for her manipulation of people.
  6. The in game book The Great War refers to Alik'r warriors harassing the Aldermi Dominion forces as they retreated. This would make the dominion hiring them most strange. It is then important to consider this: Is hiring Redgaurd assassins the style of the Dominion? They have a certain level of free reign within the Empire. Why would they need to hire human assassins to kill someone? They have the Justiciars doing that for the Thalmor.
  7. Saadia specifically wants you go and kill Kematu. Why does she want that? The Alik'r are not allowed in the city, so for now she is perfectly safe.

For these reasons I almost always end up siding with Kematu.

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I side with Kematu, because I probably can't take on 20 assassins with curved swords. –  Marcelo Feb 24 '12 at 13:24
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I tend to believe Kematu as well, mostly for the reasons you outlined. The primary thing that reinforced my belief was that he paralyzed her and took her back, rather than simply killing her on sight. –  Andy_Vulhop Feb 24 '12 at 16:29
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I've done this quest both ways.. and I am now convinced the Alik'r are lying.. I just happened to visit the hall of the dead in white run, after helping the Alik'r and what do I find Saadia's burial Urn. She was supposed to be taken alive back to Hammerfell.

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There is no way to verify one or the other as it currently stands in the game.. But here is my take on it for judging the character

  • Saadia actually puts the weapon away when you ask her to
  • The Alik'r pretty much are going to kill you unless you give them Saadia.
  • The Alik'r are also ousted from entering Whiterun.. for some reason I would imagine?

So based on that, I usually go with Saadia if I am being a relatively 'good' person... or if I just want all the Alik'r gear to dress up manikins with :)

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Do the Alik'r actually go after you if you take too long to lure Saadia to the stables? –  Renan Feb 23 '12 at 20:40
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@Renan In my experience no. –  MaskedPlant Feb 23 '12 at 20:44
    
@Renan, Saadia does believe you and she also hurries towards the stables. She is running with you. I have not tried to fast travel in this situation to see the outcome though. –  ヴァイシャリ Feb 24 '12 at 15:08
    
1) You are obviously far more than she can handle, so it's in her best interests to yield. 2) They stand down and parlay if you start attacking their outpost. They are hardly savage bandits. 3) Racism mixed with a bunch of armed dudes searching your town for a single person. –  Andy_Vulhop Feb 24 '12 at 16:31
    
@Andy_Vulhop 1) This logic doesnt hold up with any other AI in the game. 2) Yeah after you wipe out all the bandits ofcourse they want to talk, I never said they were savage or stupid.. or even bandits, they just hide in their cave :). 3) I walk around in a full suit of armor made from the scales of a dragon with daedric weapons.... Perspective? –  James Feb 24 '12 at 18:01
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I thought this was pretty black and white at first, and sided with Kematu, but as someone previously stated, you find Saadia's burial urn in the hall of the dead in Whiterun. She was supposed to be taken back alive for a trial. One thing that also bothered me was that to find out where Kematu is, you have to visit the Whiterun prison to talk to a captured Alik'r. He never really tells you why he was captured, he just says he has shamed the Alik'r for being captured, they are supposed to be "the best of the best" he says. Best at what? Wishing I hadn't turned her over, but oh well, I don't know if I could have beaten that many Alik'r warriors anyway. Just looking at what they were packing - they had curved swords. Curved. Swords.

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Okay, here's the facts: Whiterun kicked out Kematu's boys and imprisoned one of their members. In addition one of the bandits at the beginning of the cave say he doesn't like the Alik'r around, while his friend says something like don't complain unless you want a knife in the back. That's pretty compelling evidence against them in my book.

Then, after you slaughter them, Kematu tries his hand at smooth talking, and constantly calls Saadia a liar. Anyone that bases their point solely on another person being a liar, well that's just very dodgy straight off the bat.

As Slade said here, her urn is in Whiterun, if you side with Kematu, meaning that while she might be taken back alive, she gets an execution at some point. And as stated, the Thalmor don't have the right to just kidnap people in Skyrim, they would have to hire someone else to capture her. This is why I believe Saadia.

So to break it down, Kematu's Alik'r are mercenaries that made 2 groups feel threatened, they were most likely hired by the Thalmor to capture Saadia and bring her back, and Kematu lies to you out of desperation in the cave, after you've destroyed his forces. Side with the Alik'r and Saadia will be executed.

I'm going with Saadia, she's not hanging out in a damn cave, even that is pretty friggin suspicious!

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Yeah, I'm on Saadia's side, the other thing that made me want to believe her is that if she helped the Aldmeri Dominion she could be fine under their protection, they're pretty freaking strong that and the fact she was a noble and became a tavern wench to live in hiding rather than staying a noble gives some credibility to her defense. Kematu just threatens you with his band of assassins and hopes you'll lead him to her because he knows that you know where she is at that point.

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protected by LessPop_MoreFizz Aug 15 '12 at 18:45

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