What beats an ADC/Support combo?

Question

I wanted to find out, if there was a counter to the current LoL Meta that consists of

• 1 Top player (often Bruiser)
• 1 Mid player (often AP Carry)
• 2 Bot players (often AD Carry and Support)
• 1 Jungler

The part of the meta that I want to try and change, is the bottom lane. Playing AD Carry/Support is becoming so amazingly old now, that I was wondering if there really wasn't any better way to do it.

Me and a few friends tried to do a Double Bruiser bottom (like Pantheon/Rengar). The problem with a double bruiser combination is, that the AD carry will snowball hard once they get their first kill, they are ranged and often got an escape mechanic. Two champions in particular screw this up: Ezreal and Vayne.

There are so many supports as well which would screw this up.

While it worked fine in some games (probably because they were bad) it failed horribly in other games. What ideas do you have on this?

How would you counter an AD Carry/Support bottom?

Answer 1

This is just my opinion, but I hope that it will hold some insight for you.

In regards to the current meta and possible counters to it, there are no 100% counters.

One of the biggest variables in every game of League you play is the enemy teams skill/teamwork. No two teams play the same and no two players will respond to different situations in the same manner.

Many players have become accustomed to the current meta game of sending-

1 Bruiser type solo Top

1 AP caster/nuker/assassin Mid

1 Jungle

and

1 Ranged AD carry and 1 Support Bot

This team composition has been found to be not only the most efficient, but to provide in a typical game the highest chance for success.

This does not however mean it will always result in a win for the team that uses this format.

One of the reasons for this is that with set lane compositions, you often know who you will be facing in lane before you ever get there. This allows for strategies and tactics for each lane to be devised before you ever encounter your enemy in the lane.

Teams that decide to try something different, whether its sending that AP caster/nuker bot with your AD carry, not having a jungle so that your bruiser top is no longer going to get zoned out by that counter pick, sending your tank mid, all of these things can not only confuse the enemy team, but they can put them out of their comfort zone.

Being out of that comfort zone, not knowing how to deal with that dual top lane or that tank that you just can't seem to do anything to mid, can majorly screw with a player and a team's mindset.

Counters to the meta that I have seen be effective were not always necessarily fantastic teams that just switched up where a specific role goes. Part of the game of League of Legends is the mental aspect to it. A team that can confuse, agitate, or otherwise just throw off the shackles of what the enemy expects them to do, can win games regardless of filling those typical meta roles.

I have personally seen teams of tanks, teams of assassins, teams of AD carries and teams of champions that would typically be viewed as supports just roll the enemy team. Not because their team composition was better, but because they were able to change the flow of the game. They were able to force the enemy team to deal with situations that they normally would not find themselves in, fighting champions that they may very well not know how to play against.

The biggest thing with these teams, regardless of their team composition is that they are able to take control of the game. When they gained an advantage, they kept it. They push, gank, go for dragon/baron when they can take it, ward and communicate with their team. They "know" what they need to do to win, and they also know that they often times have to win before the game goes on to long.

In conclusion, although there is no "hard" counter to the current meta, with proper knowledge of the game, a little bit of innovation and a whole lot of teamwork, it is "possible" to win with something other than the current meta. (You just have to try!)

Answer 2

It is situational depending on the enemy picks. This is not a definitive answer, but it gives you the general strategy to counter bottom lane.

VS sustain support (i.e. Sona, Soraka)

Generally you need hard CC and big burst to counter this combo. The problem is, hard CC counters you right back as it interupts your burst damage.

Some well known strong kill combos are:

• Jarvan/Leona
• Blitzcrank/Alistair
• Pantheon/Xin
• Sion/Taric

VS cc / no sustain (i.e. Leona, Janna)

The idea would be to poke champions like this out of lane and completely deny them due to them being on constant low health, or having to teleport home.

Any combination of long range AP carries would excel here, including:

• Ziggs
• Nidalee
• Le Blanc
• Cassiopeia
• Brand
• Victor

Longer range AD carries would also be very good:

• Caitlyn
• Ezreal
• Corki
• Sivir

Answer 3

You have it right with your double bruiser approach. 2 Strong champions with stuns. J4, Jax, Pantheon, Sion, Xin Zhao, etc...

Make sure you have a "hard-CC", I.E. stun, knock up, etc... Silence and slows won't work as good.

Get in the bushes, let them farm. The ADC will probably push too much, that's when you jump. Chain the CC's, and melt him. If he is wary and doesn't push, the support will eventually go check the bushes. Generally, disregard him. When he lands whatever CC he has on you, counter-dive the ADC. Always the ADC. The ADC will follow after he sees his support waste all his CD's on you, it will be natural for him to do so, because that's what he is conditioned to do in regular meta match-ups. That's when you pounce.

Only push and farm after you have forced them out of the lane, or else their ADC will harass you until you are too low to do anything. When they come back, get back in the bushes, be patient, and wait for another opportunity.

This isn't definitive, and won't work every time, but is general guide-lines to running successful kill lanes.

Answer 4

About Metas

The "Metas" are a way to make a basic good strategy, it serves only to do a way to people work in harmony.

---

About Counter bot lane

Well, the only role I don't play is adc. But the most playable is the support role. So here is what I learned.

The best way to counter ANY lane are Ganks. Not only from the Jungle, but the mid as well, even the bottom lane itself.

---

Ganks

Always let your lane be pushed, to make room to chase before you hit the enemy turret.

• From the Jungler

Junglers are the easier to do ganks, because you never know where he is.

• From the Mid

This is one of the best (in my opinion) ways to gank. The mid push his lane and/or kill his enemy. So go down for a quick attack. as usually is an AP character the burst is huge.

• From the bottom lane itself

The support or the adc will stay in lane while the other goes around (by the river, usually) and attack the opponent when their minions are fewer than yours. This is good because your minions will deal good part of the damage.

NOTE: this is only good in early game (before level 6 or as soon as lv 6 is hitted) after that, you will probably kill yourself.

---

Other ways on counter

You can always go with Support and ADC as the "usual meta" states. Besides that, the ways that I saw going good are:

• Tank + assassin (Akali, Talon, Katarina...)

The tank holds the major part of the damage while the assassin Finish in one go the opponent. This is the best sustainability without the Support class.

• Adc + Ap/assassin

The burst of damage is too great. If you "jump" in the right moment is just over in a couple of seconds. Be careful, you can die very easy with this set up.

• Dual Ap

This works really great. best way to win the lane, BUT it messes with your end game, also is easy to get ganked, so you need extra attention with wards in this set up.

• Dual assassin

I played versus this set up a couple of times. It's really hurtful but not very good in sustainability. without the Tank to hold the damage or the burst aoe damage, the minions drop your heal kind fast (when you jump to kill).