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I'm currently using Gavelkind succession, and it looks like I might not have a chance to change it before I die. I currently have 2 sons and hold 2 duchies, so when I die they'll each get one - Obviously, I'd much prefer that not happen, and ideally I want the younger to be a vassal of the elder. Is there any way at all to arrange this?

I've read a suggestion elsewhere to give all my titles to my oldest son before death, but I'm not allowed to hand out the duchies since they're my highest titles. If my younger son inherits one of the duchies, but I've given my elder son all of the counties inside that duchy, then what happens? I guess The younger son inherits the title, but the elder son gets a de jure claim? And if he presses the claim he can declare war, but how does war work when one side has no demense or vassals, and hence no troops?

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You can't actually give your eldest son all the counties in the other duchy as of the 1.10 patch, so the situation you describe can't happen. Paradox wanted to close the exploit you mention for gavelkind, so now you are limited to giving your heir a single county. And if you gave your younger son the counties in the elder's ducal inheritance, the inheritance would simply change so that your unlanded eldest son inherited the other duchy instead: inheritance is always recalculated based on your current titles, not titles you once had.

The way to avoid the division of your realm on death is to eliminate one son's ducal inheritance. You can do that by giving him a bishopric (which makes him ineligible to inherit anything), by destroying a duchy title (thereby making one inherit the remaining duchy and the other only a county or two), or by having him conveniently expire before you do through various means.

Destroying the title is probably the "nicest" option, since you get to keep both sons alive and ruling. That would also keep your whole realm intact under a single duchy, and you can always recreate the title with a later ruler once you have the Kingdom or you have better succession laws.

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  • So as for part 1 of my question, is there any way (either at my death or before) to set up a vassal-liege relationship between my sons? All I can think of is giving a city to the youngest and the county it's in to the eldest - wouldn't that work? Would the vassal-liege relationship remain after I die, or would their inheritance change it? I'd need a barony title to do that - is there any way to revoke or otherwise claim a barony title without pissing off all my other vassals? I've only figured out how to do that with counties.
    – Josh
    Jun 13, 2013 at 3:03
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    @Josh The problem is that you have two ducal titles. No matter what you do, two ducal titles and two sons means each get one not matter what other titles they hold. You need either fewer duchies or fewer sons, or your realm will split. (They will each have claims though, so you can always start a war after to rejoin the realm.)
    – SevenSidedDie
    Jun 13, 2013 at 3:37
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    @Josh Adding to SevenSidedDies' comment. A duke cannot be a vassal of another duke, because their titles are equal - even if you deliberately set it up before your death. However, you can destroy one ducy as suggested - then the elder would inherit the duchy, and the younger would inherit at least one county as a vassal to his brother.
    – Nix
    Jun 16, 2013 at 13:09
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    The "destroying the title" technique you suggest here has been disallowed as of version 1.101 (June 2013), as documented in the patch notes.
    – keturn
    Jun 23, 2013 at 23:40
  • @keturn Well damn.
    – SevenSidedDie
    Jun 24, 2013 at 5:06
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A way to solve this problem is to give your heir one of the duchies, and make the other one your primary (if you are allowed to give a duchy to your son).

Since he is your heir, and the eldest son, he will get the primary title of yours which is the duchy you keep.

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