I just started a new game as Mainz. I got granted the title "Legatus Natus" immediately after game start by a national event.

We have long been honored with being the Pope's representative - Legatus Natus - north of the Alps. Such a prestigious title demands a certain level of dignity and we can not let our prestige or our relations with the Pope drop too low.

However, just a few days later (maybe 2 or 3) the pope decided he made a mistake and revoked the title again (also through an event).

The prestigious position as Legatus Natus can only be held by a Catholic bishop in the Holy Roman Empire. As we no longer meet this requirement, the Pope has revoked the title.

What the ...?

Here are the facts:

  • I seem to fulfill all criteria:
    • in the HRE
    • catholic
    • theocracy
  • My reputation is very low, but that's because it started that way. Not much I could do about it within 2 days.
  • I haven't done anything in the game yet but accept an alliance with Württemberg.

So here my questions:

  • Is this a bug? What could have cause me to lose Legatus Natus this quickly?
  • What can I do to keep the title?
  • If nothing (which would be rather dumb), what can I do to regain the title?

Addition: The exact same thing happens with "Primas Germaniae". Mainz gets it and loses it right away.

  • I just started a new game with Mainz, same thing happened again. This time I did not even join any Alliances. – magnattic Aug 29 '13 at 20:03
  • I feel like the AI in the game still needs a little bit of work. I often find other nations doing strange things diplomatically as well as tactically (ie marching their smaller, weaker army to certain death) – Kyle Shepard Aug 29 '13 at 22:22
  • 2
    I love the title of this question. – Django Reinhardt Aug 30 '13 at 11:31
  • Why is the pope so erratic? Because the Pope doesn't think, he believes. How often have men's beliefs been proven to be erratic in the course of history? ;) – Nolonar Aug 30 '13 at 18:11
  • 1
    +1 under the guise of "Questions that are absurd without context" – Mondrianaire Jan 16 '14 at 0:11

UPDATE: According to recent changelogs, the bugs regarding Legatus Natus and PrimasGermaniae are fixed in Patch 1.4

Here the old answer with an explanation of the bug:

I just checked the event files for both events (LegatusNatus.txt and PrimasGermaniae.txt).

They behave pretty much in the same way, so I will only write it up for LegatusNatus.

From what I can gather, Mainz gets the title automatically within one month:

# Legatus Natus
country_event = {
    trigger = {
        papacy_active = yes                      <-- Pope must exist
        tag = MAI                                <-- This only happens to Mainz
        exists = yes                             <-- Mainz must exist
        is_elector = yes                         <-- Mainz must be an elector
        government = theocratic_government       <-- Mainz has to be a theocracy
        NOT = { has_country_flag = happened_763 }<-- The event has not happened yet

    mean_time_to_happen = { months = 1 }

    immediate = { set_country_flag = happened_763 }

    option = {
        name = "EVTOPTA763"
        add_country_modifier = {
            name = "legatus_natus"
            duration = -1

And this is where things go wrong. For Mainz to get the title there is no need for a good papal relation, and Mainz starts out with a low one in fact.

However, the event for losing the title is as follows:

# Position as Legatus Natus Revoked
country_event = {
    trigger = {
        has_country_modifier = legatus_natus <-- Country must be legatus natus
        OR = {                               <-- and either of the following is true
            capital_scope = { is_part_of_hre = no } <-- not part of the HRE
            NOT = { government = theocratic_government } <-- not a theocracy
            NOT = { religion = catholic } <-- not catholic
            NOT = { has_opinion ={ who = PAP value = 100 } } <-- not 100 relations with the Papal States
            exists = no <-- Country not existing

    mean_time_to_happen = { months = 1 }

    option = {
        name = "EVTOPTA964"
        remove_country_modifier = legatus_natus
        set_global_flag = no_legatus_natus

So within another month after getting the title Mainz will lose it again due to the Papal States not having an opinion of 100 of Mainz.

If that's no bug, I don't know what is.

I guess Mainz should either get good relations with the Papal States from the beginning or only get the title after they hit the 100 relations threshold.

Also the info text for losing the title is highly confusing. Nowhere does it say that you have to have good relations to the Papal States.

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  • Is this actual code? No wonder it has bugs with syntax like that. – kotekzot Aug 30 '13 at 7:10
  • @kotekzot it isn't that much worse than JSON (hell transforming from this to JSON is very straight forward) – ratchet freak Aug 30 '13 at 7:13
  • @ratchetfreak JSOn isn't a scripting language, though. Object structure isn't terrible, but this is grotesque: NOT = { has_opinion ={ who = PAP value = 100 } }. This isn't really the place to discuss the virtues and failings of various languages, though, so I'll bow out now. – kotekzot Aug 30 '13 at 9:23
  • @kotekzot no I agree that a tree structure is not the right tool for a psuedo scripting language – ratchet freak Aug 30 '13 at 9:25
  • 3
    I don't think this is the scripting language of the game (I think the game is written in Lua), I think these are more like definition files that the game reads in at the start. As ratchet freak said, its more like a data format like JSON. Don't see too many things wrong with it, also it makes modding easy as hell. – magnattic Aug 30 '13 at 13:14

It sounds like the game is trying to go through all catholic electors looking for one with a high enough relationship with the pope to give the title to, because nobody has it by default. You should never have received the title in the first place with a low relation, so don't worry about losing it. You probably can't keep it unless you can quickly raise relations through gift and enemy of enemy bonuses.

To regain the title, you need to maintain the 3 requirements you mentioned, have a high relationship with the pope, and wait for the previous title holder to die. Having a friendly relationship with the papal state may help as well.

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