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I've been playing a lot of support Tresh lately, and I'm wondering how much should I put myself in danger for a soul?

I'm the kind of Thresh player that goes for every soul that it's not dumb to go get (by not dumb I mean not jumping in a fight or diving a tower for it) but sometimes I do things like cancel a recall or extend to go get one.

So should I not focus on getting souls, or should getting souls be kind of a priority?

  • @Yuki I believe this was changed after Thresh's release, I'm not positive, but I'm reasonably sure from a couple games this week that it is now a flat .75armour and ability power per soul – Sconibulus Feb 16 '14 at 2:56
  • @Sconibulus about 3 patches ago that was changed, yes. – Vogel612 Feb 19 '14 at 17:39
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League of legends wikia fixes the number of souls required to match other champions armour:

At level 18, it takes 67 souls (roughly four per level) to surpass Orianna's 62 armor, the lowest innate champion armor. It takes 140 souls (roughly eight per level) to surpass Taric's Shatter-enhanced 116.6 armor, the highest armor possible without the use of items, runes, or masteries. source

I find this "Number of souls per level" to be a bad metric, since level progress is not linear. We can read in the same page that:

On Summoner's Rift, the drop rate for souls from small minions is 33%. However, the probability adjusts dynamically. If you are above or below your expected quota of soul drops from small minions, the probability lowers or rises by a small amount until you are back at your quota of drops. It is worth stressing that this only takes into account souls dropped, and not souls collected.

This means each wave will drop 2 souls plus one each three waves.

Considering this, I computed this spreadsheet.

Theoretically you can reach the lowest armour point at 15m30s if you can collect all souls, and the highest at 31m. This theory is impaired by the zoning of the enemy. They will make some souls not available to pick up, force you out of lane losing souls. In return, your get bonus by killing, or being under the quota.

The worst thing that can happen, regarding soul collection, is being out of lane (death, roaming, back to shop). Thus this time has to be minimised. In consequence, you must be careful when picking souls if the enemy bot lane can harass you. Unless you can take the shots and get your health back after it.

If we try to read the statistics the other way around, we can have a view of what we can afford to lose. The theoretical maximum at level 18 is 189 souls. Subtracted from the 140 of the highest champion armour at level 18, remains 49 souls. This is the number of souls you can afford to lose "without penalty" when compared to Taric. Losing more than 122 souls would put you below any champion armour rate at level 18.

49 souls are roughly 21 waves out of 81, which means you can afford to lose a forth of the soul drop. 122 souls are 52 waves, approximately two third.

Conclusion, if you lose more than 2/3rd of the souls, you are below the lowest champion armour rate. If you lose only 1/4th of the souls, you match the best champion armour rate.

Bonus : how to collect souls efficiently

The enemy ADC will always try to shoot you if he can: try to look for his last hit timing. This will force him to chose between harass and money. Usually They'll get the last hit (because money is more valuable and because that was the plan in the beginning)

The enemy support will also try to get hit on you. Avoiding his zoning is a bit more difficult. Try to get a good position, take advantage of the zone he is not covering to come and pick the souls from the farthest point away from him.

Their are many souls but they are too far away? If the situation is calm, throw a lantern, it can collect souls for you. Avoid overusing this technique as your carry might need the lantern for shielding or move away.

You need to go back home for health, but you ADC is still around?? Drop a lantern before hitting B, this will collect any souls that drops before you are sent back to base.

  • only thing missing in that is, that every big monster WILL drop a soul when killed in your proximity. – Vogel612 Feb 19 '14 at 17:47
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    @Vogel612 quoting myself : "This means each wave will drop 2 souls plus one each three waves". The spreadsheet takes siege minion in account (I corrected after 35mn though). I do not take into account any "extra" souls you might get from jungle, or kills, because they are not a "reliable" source of souls when you are support. – M'vy Feb 19 '14 at 18:16
  • you could add dragon though, this one should be (in the best case) done whenever he's up, also you assume that you are in lane til lvl 18 which is just plain BS, but hey it's maths and not reality ;) – Vogel612 Feb 19 '14 at 18:37
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Considering souls grant Thresh armor and he doesn't receive armor per level like other champions, grabbing souls is important if you want to last until the late-game. Considering Thresh requires 67 souls to be able to match Orianna's innate 62 (the lowest innate champion armor), I would place getting to at least 70 souls at somewhat high priority.

Getting as many souls as you can allows you to delay getting armor items in favor of other important support items (such as Sightstones) because your soul stacks make up for what armor you're not building.

Grabbing souls in the situations you mentioned (cancelling a recall, overextending, etc.) all depend on your map awareness. Do you know where the jungler/mid is? If they aren't coming in for a gank or are clearly far enough away, it's acceptable to extend a bit, so long as your carry knows what's going on. Don't risk the possibility of dying just so you can get an exra 0.75 armor/AP.

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    I never ever rush armour item before getting a sightstone or gold items. These two are currently a must have for any support champion; Besides, targon and sightsone do provide health that usually makes up for the lack of early armour. – M'vy Feb 16 '14 at 17:46
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1 Soul for Thresh gives 0.75 points of armor, and 1 point of ability power.

Cloth Armor cost 300 gold for 15 points of armor. Doing a little math gives us a value of 20 gold per point of armor. A little more math tells us that 0.75 armor is worth 15 gold.

An Amplifying Tome costs 435 gold for 20 points of ability power. Doing the same math as earlier tells us that 1 point of ability power is worth 21.75 gold.

Combining these 2 numbers (15 gold & 21.75 gold) gives a single Soul a value of 36.75 gold. Considering that Thresh has the lowest level 18 armor it is imperative that you acquire souls.

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