Would the 4.20 patch make smite an unintended laning spell?

Question

As of the 4.20 patch the hunters machette is only purchaceable when you have smite as summoner spell. The hunters machette also got some neat new items to build in-to. These are to much to list so the link can be found on the league wiki or here.

The item i potentially saw as a laning weapon would be the :

Skirmisher's Sabre (NEW)

RECIPE Hunter's Machete + 350 gold

PASSIVE - CHALLENGING SMITE Smite can be cast on enemy champions, marking them for 6 seconds. While marked, you deal 18-69 bonus true damage to them on hit, have vision of them, and reduce their damage to you by 20%.

PASSIVE - JUNGLER Deal 45 magic damage on hit to monsters over 2 seconds and gain 10 health and 5 mana per second while in combat with monsters

Or the :

Stalker's Blade (NEW)

RECIPE Hunter's Machete + 350 gold

PASSIVE - CHILLING SMITE Smite can be cast on enemy champions, dealing 28-164 true damage and reducing their movement speed by 50% for 2 seconds

PASSIVE - JUNGLER Deal 45 magic damage on hit to monsters over 2 seconds and gain 10 health and 5 mana per second while in combat with monsters

Now as a top laner being able to smite champions and deal bonus true damage on hit could potentially change a fight. (also the 20% damage reduction and vision or the movement speed slow helps).

But wait, there's more.

These items can be build into the enchanted versions and they basicly provide some pretty deasent stats. (look on the wiki for information (its a lot to list)).

My question would be, is taking smite in lane (specifically top lane but any lane would be viable) worth it? (so compared to, bloodthirster, manamune, rabadons etc and compared to taking tp/ignite/exhaust/heal/flash??)

Smite has a 40 second cooldown. Ignite (for example) has a 210 second cooldown. If you're able to do bonus damage this often i'd say it would be pretty viable. (its 5 smites for every ignite).

Answer 1

I don't think it would be viable/worth it.

The impact of having a "real" summoner spell early in the game is huge! Taking smite is definitely a disadvantage for your early laning, which probably makes you lose your lane. You can't secure a kill with smite at level 3, but with ignite you can!

What do you get for your gold

Tier 1 (hunters machete): As a laner you barely fight against monsters, which makes the passive called "Jungler" useless. since you only fight minions and champions you completely wasted 400g.

Tier 2 (blade or sabre): You basically paid 750g to modify one of your summoner spells and make it useful.

Tier 3 (Enchantments): Statistically, their base states are, in most cases, gold efficient, considering you mainly fight against minions and champions. You will barely do any jungle camps and won't benefit from the Jungler passive. There are better items you could have bought from that gold.

It matters, when you start upgrading

Early

If you buy it early, you are definitely weaker than your opponent, because he probably has a Doran's item and you have nothing (no stats increase) and only one summoner spell when it comes to fighting champions because smite is useless and he might have 2.

Mid/Lategame

If you buy it in the late game you still had smite as a summoner spell the whole game. any other summoner spell would have been more useful until that point. (Congrats: You probably can secure 1 CS every 60 seconds)

Comparison to other Summoner Spells

Chilling Smite VS Ignite

• Ignite has 3.5 times the cooldown of smite
• Ignite deals 4 times more damage than chilling smite
• The CC of Chilling Smite is "only" 50% slow for 2 seconds
• Ignite reduces healing and regeneration effects on the target by 50% for 5 seconds

Chilling Smite VS Exhaust

• Exhaust has 3.5 times the cooldown of smite
• Exhaust reduces the Movement Speed and Attack Speed by 30%, the Armor and Magic Resist by 10, and the damage dealt to all targets by 40% for 2.5 seconds.
• The CC of Chilling Smite is 50% slow for 2 seconds

Challenging Smite VS Exhaust

• Exhaust has 3.5 times the cooldown of smite
• Exhaust reduces the Movement Speed and Attack Speed by 30%, the Armor and Magic Resist by 10, and the damage dealt to all targets by 40% for 2.5 seconds.
• Challenging Smite lets you deal 18-69 bonus true damage to them on hit, you have vision of them, and reduce their damage TO YOU by 20%.

Smite VS Teemo

You are able to smite Teemo! Forget what you just read and build an item that lets you smite Satan... uh... Teemo!

Answer 2

There is one other benefit people have missed so far - you can smite a jungle camp without killing it to get the buff. Just make sure you tell your Jungler so they don't waste their smite on the same camp.

In other words early game before you get the item to let you smite the enemy player you can still smite the frog and get the poison. The smite on Krug isn't so useful as it just stuns minions or monsters but you can use it for a little extra turret poke.

A mid-laner with smite could go smite the raptors then use it to clear out enemy wards though which would be interesting. Especially since mid laners often clear that camp anyway.

I doubt this is enough to tip the balance but it does give you some utility from the smite even before you have the item.

Answer 3

I think the new Smite might be really good in certain cases. The Scavenging, Blasting and Chilling look useless to me (maybe Chilling, when you're playing someone with 0cc or who needs to catch up with the enemy, like Sion Udyr/Voli). Challenging smite is the one that looks really good.

As DropDeadsander already pointed, it makes you weaker in lane: you HAVE to buy an item that builds from machette, is useless in lane, and puts you 750g behind your opponent. However, it allows you to gain a certain advantage in lane: every 45s, you get a trade that you WILL win. Your opponent will do 20% less damages, and you get bonus damages on each auto. Your opponent just can't fight back, unless they are already ahead of you. Their exhaust/ignite have 5x the cooldown from smite, so you just have to bait it and fight again less than a minute later to regain the advantage. The item also build into something useful: tenacity, cdr and ap or cdr and ad/arpen, for a cheap price (1500g). So it is, in my opinion, a very viable build path.

So, considering its strengths, who would take it:

• Toplane, definitely possible, probably not always the best choice. It will depend on the match up: if your opponent has tp, you need to be able to capitalize on your advantage and send him back several times while his tp is down. If he has ignite, you need to trade often, but no go all in, to burn his ignite and then capitalize on the advantage. I think it would be good on toplaners like Riven, Pantheon or Jayce that can force really short trades, really often, and push their opponent out. Combining it with brutalizer later allow you to stack ad and arpen on those champs.

• Midlane, I could see it used by assassins with low cds like Talon or Fizz, that can take advantage of it. I think ignite would still be better on them for the 100% kill all-ins. I could see it used by the sustained-dps mages like karthus or cassio, that want to survive as long as possible to deal huge damages. They could definitely use the damage reduction, but I think exhaust/heal is still better to protect them from assassins.

• Botlane, you could put it on adcs, but the item it builds into aren't very good for them, so I don't think it can be used. It looks like a really good option for supports though, since it is a mini-exhaust on a shorter cooldown. You also often can't afford the big 1000+g item, so the cheap 750g to get it is an option. You lose some very early kill pressure, but you should get it back after your first back. It delays your sightstone, and would need some coordination with your for warding between 1st and 2nd back though. You'd then get the Juggernaut upgrade on supports like Thresh or Leona, which would give you tenacity, and allow you to build tabis without losing it. You'd get the Magus upgrade on Nami/Janna, allowing you to get some cdr without the useless mana regen that plagues support items.

In the end, I think it will definitely be a viable solution in certain situations. Other examples:

• Vlad top, allows you to survive early game thanks to the damage reduction, while getting some sweet cdr without the mana regen from morello.
• Against full ad team, you need tenacity but don't want to build mercuries, get it and get tabis.
• Pantheon mid, smite, jump on him, burst, back, do it another time without smite and a third time with it and he's dead
• Twitch adc, trying to gank mid with invis, but afraid that the enemy syndra will just turn back and kill you? smite her and survive easily, while dealing bonus damages.

And last but not least, smiting champions, didn't every one dream of that while leveling ?

Answer 4

This is coming from someone who has actually tried this in a handful of games and being successful.

You do not have to start with the machete, you can take a different lane item for the start. You have to work towards the enchantments that give pretty decent Stat bonuses.

Also, I use smite extremely well in lane and it helps me farm against pesky lane pushers like Morgana and Ziggs (I played all of my games as mid lane mages, Orianna, Ahri, and Diana.) The chilling smite is really good and is basically another active spell in your arsenal like DFG. On Ahri, this was a dream. Ignite doesn't give you damage instantly unlike chilling smite. Also the cd is 60 seconds, which is still nice and ensure at least a cannon minion for your farm. You can call it a crutch if you want, but taking smite in lane ensures the farm, and the new jungle items give you decent stats for lanes (enchantments)

Also, as mentioned, smiting a camp gives you really good benefits. And if you really want the healing reduction smite gives, build morellonomicon. I think taking smite in lane in S5 is completely viable, as I have tested it. More games will be played, and if I ever lose lane really hard or lose a game because of it I will rethink my statements. But even from playing behind, having the chilling smite was a useful tool.

Answer 5

I'm sorry, but these smites are not as useless as you guys think.

In bot lane, with some cc, let's say Varus, Skirmisher's blade - Devourer is amazing. Snare + smite = win. They can't trade you back the same amount of damage you did (magic damage on hit + true damage + 20% dmg reduction lol?).

It is a risk, but sometimes it can put you ahead over the enemy adc. I know heavy cc in bot lane secures a good trade but the damage this blade can do can not be ignored easily. Buy it if you know you can win the lane with ease. Even if you screw it and do bad in early, the magic damage on hit (and true dmg of course) scales well in late game.

You all should give it a try. Devourer was an example but, i think is the most useful enchantment for an adc.

Answer 6

I have tried it toplane. It works very well because you are able to reach level 2 faster because you can go and kill golems. And if you get Skirmisher'Saber, you can use it defensively or offensively because of the on-hit true damage, and the 20% damage reduction on the enemy.

Answer 7

Smite overpowered ! You don't need to buy the machete item at start. You can buy it on your first trip back, and here's the bonus :
For the Top lane you can do Gromp (the frog) or the golems camp easily at level 1 with your smite, giving you level 2 directly. You will then be one level ahead on your lane and have a great advantage.