Does it make sense to upgrade Siyalatas after a special upgrade level?

I'm playing passive, this means I normally won't click. Just in some cases for some boss fights. This means I make extensive use of Siyalatas (and some others). Currently is currently at level 4, which means I have a Bonus damage of 100% (on idle). I can upgrade it which will give me 25% more per level. But in fact I loose some Hero souls (currently 4) for the next update. 4 Hero souls will be a Bonus of 40%, while Siyalatas just give me 25%. Now... is there any advantage for me to upgrade him further?

Siyalatas on Level 4

2 Answers 2


The short answer is Yes & No; but let me explain a bit further:

Both Siyalatas and Libertas are key to an idle play style; so you're going to want to beef these guys up no matter what. The question then really becomes "When is a good time?"

The calculators linked in Texenox's post are definitely helpful (I've used them as well). However; they seem to break down a bit when you start getting ancients like Iris & Morgulis.

What you need to balance is the number of hero souls you currently have vs. what it would take to upgrade. As it looks like you're pretty early game; I probably wouldn't dip below 50HS in order to buy/upgrade ancients. If you have more than that; then go for it. (although I probably wouldn't pump 100 levels into him yet).

What's been working for me is that every time I ascend; I spend 50% of the Hero Souls I get on new ancients/upgrades. That seems to give me a pretty good balance between the HS DPS bonus & upgrades.

Response 1 You're probably going to want to wait on investing in Morgulis; he's better mid/late game; where you are; your HS are better spent elsewhere for the time being. There's no hidden benefit to Siyalatas (his boost actually decreases the higher he goes (-1% every 10 levels); but keep in mind this game is all about ratios; trading 5% of your HS DPS to get +25% idle damage is well worth it.

Response 2 Yep; you got it. Siya is another multiplier. Basically its DPS * HS Bonus * Siya bonus. That's why it's important to try and keep things balanced. An over simplified example is that if you have 10 "things"; 8 * 2 is worse than 5 * 5. I've updated my post to point to the Siya wiki page; the discussion in there is much more in depth as to when/why to upgrade. What you can always try is to look at your DPS; spend a level on Siya; and then see if you went up or down. If you went up; spend another level. If you went down; ascend a few times before spending any more levels. Even if you go down; the # of HS spent should be easily recouped within an ascension or two.

  • Thanks @Jim-B. That is helping me too. :-) Well I just get Morgulis, which you mentioned and it seems to be a good idea to invest in him too as he gives more as he costs. But for Siyalatas, there is no hidden extra at some point, or his benefit doesn't improve? By the way, the 100 Siyalatas are just from the push of the alt+gr + print ;-)
    – Ionic
    Jul 10, 2015 at 16:56
  • Yes but this is the point I don't understand. Currently I need to spend 6 HS for 1 Siyalatas. 6 HS will give me + 60% (10% per Soul) DPS. While Siyalatas will give me just +25%. What is the Point about it? Do I miss something? The +25% is accounted to my whole DPS, right? But the +10% is accounted to my Base DPS? Is that the background of Siyalatas?
    – Ionic
    Jul 10, 2015 at 20:37
  • Moved my comments into answer
    – Jim B
    Jul 10, 2015 at 21:17
  • Thanks for your help. This describes it at the best. :-)
    – Ionic
    Jul 11, 2015 at 8:58

Both this and this website link you to a calculator that should solve this problem for you.

When using these, what you need to do is click on the settings button in the game (should be a little wrench icon) and click on Save, then cancel the save and paste the code you would get on the calculator (it's already save to your clipboard when you cancel).

This will give you the best solution to your problem by telling you if you should upgrade and by how much, as well as recommending any Ancients to get next. If the calculator recommends you upgrade him, then do it. If not, then no.

(It has, however, come to my attention that these calculators may begin to become unreliable depending on which ancients you have.)

  • 1
    Although this calculator is useful... Do you think you could answer the question? (Basically: "Yes" or "No" and why?)
    – aytimothy
    Jul 10, 2015 at 10:34
  • I'll give it a try when I'm back home. Thanks for the answer anyway. :-)
    – Ionic
    Jul 10, 2015 at 11:51

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