4

AFAIK there are at least 4 ways to revoke a title without incurring tyranny.

1) send a chancellor to fabricate claims - by far the most convenient way. The problem is you can't send him anywhere within your demesne.

2) grant independence then use de jure claim to declare war. You can't do this if the vassal is within de jure territory and of your religion.

3) spur the vassal to rebel. To do this you need to raise his levies (and wait till his opinion of you is ruined). It's a little tricky, because you can't actually raise them per holding, only per county and you don't want the other vassals (if there are any) to rebel. What you do is you raise the county levies, then disband all but the ones owned by the one you want to infuriate. Still, this solution, while viable, requires lots of time.

4) pray for him to create a plot, then pray to uncover it, then pray to fail to imprison him and thus having him rebel. Well, it seems to me there's no guarantee this ever happens throughout the whole gameplay.

Is there some other way? Did I miss something?

  • 2
    Does marrying yourself or your heir to his heir then murdering him count? – Studoku Jul 19 '15 at 0:54
5

You've covered a few points, but I have a few addendums. First of all, you're probably aware it's generally a bad idea to hold multiple baronies in a county. Holding the county-capital barony is ideal because it gives you all the taxes and levies from the mayor, bishop and baron vassals, letting you spend your demesne limit on additional counties, getting more low level vassals. These vassals don't count towards your vassal limit, because they're below count-level.

For raising levies, you can raise the whole county's worth of levies from the county holding view and then split them up and dismiss the irrelevant ones. This is done with the 'New Unit' button, which is an icon of two stick figures separated by a slash. Each holding or vassal will have exactly one indivisible unit when raised. If it's your holding, it will be called "Barony of X" (or whatever barony level title your realm employs). If it's a vassal's levy, it will be called "Liege Levy of X", where X is the vassal's top level title.

You can move units between armies with the left and right arrow buttons next to each unit. Update: Version 2.4.2 (Horse Lords) changed this into a drag-and-drop interface. Put your target vassal's levy in the new unit by itself. Then select the other unit with the check mark and dismiss it.

The opinion penalty for having raised levies too long is also per-character, like most other transient penalties. If you or the target vassal dies, the penalty will be reset to zero.

For getting a vassal to plot, it also helps to make them hate you. If they have ambitious, envious etc. traits, it doesn't take much negative opinions to see some activity. Raising levies works here, but if they're content, honest, trusting etc. it will take bringing out the big hate. You can also plot to assassinate them, invite an incompetent drunkard to the plot and abandon it as soon as they spill the beans. You can seduce, kill or request excommunication of their family members. You can appoint them to the council and fire them. You can give them an honorary title and revoke it, then give them court jester. If they're fostering someone, ask the liege of the ward to educate them yourself. There really are a lot of options for getting people to hate you...

Another long game to play with the succession is to foster their heir. They have to like you a bit to agree to this, so do it before ruining their opinion. The idea is to give the heir rebellious traits, setting them up to hate your heir. You can also fine-tune it for traits that oppose your or your heir's traits, e.g. cynical vs. zealous equals a mutual -10. If their heir inherits before you shuffle off, they'll have a +25 mentor opinion of you, which can ruin the short term attempts. As a bonus to fostering, you will have likely have several opportunities to milk them for small prestige or piety bumps by praying for them or extolling them to the court; especially praying for piety coincides with small chances of removing bad traits (usually the 7 sins).

  • the 7 sins aren't that bad, at least not all of them :). Great write-up, especially on the multitude of various ways of making people hate you. I think it's even worth reformatting and posting as an answer for its own question (the obvious one would be: "How to make people hate you?" :)) – z33k Jul 21 '15 at 11:00
4

The good people over at Paradox Forums provided me with these answers:

  1. Murder. Straight and simple. Just plot to kill the baron, then his/her heirs. Eventually you'll inherit the title. If the succession line's too long for your liking, you'd probably want to listen to Studoku's advice above of first marrying into it.

  2. Intrigue focus. According to a Paradox Forums poster named Peter Kirby:

    "Intrigue focus (Way of Life DLC), will open up more opportunities to move to imprison him and thus having him rebel. It also gives more opportunities to kill him, and you seem to get away with it without 'known murderer' penalties more often (simply getting large 'attempted murder' penalties from the target)"

  3. Excommunication. Once again let me quote a PF poster:

    Excommunicate makes rest of realm not care that you revoked him

You can read the whole thread here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-revoke-a-barony-title-in-ones-demesne-without-tyranny.871375/

  • For excommunication, it seems like one needs to have an antipope handy or pray that the target vassal adopts a heresy on their own. – Dacio Aug 10 '15 at 18:22
  • 2
    All things are possible through adequate levels of murder. – CrusaderJ Aug 10 '15 at 19:25

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