I, a tribal emperor, and a duke vassal both have many barony vassals that don't belong to any of our directly controlled counties, with other direct vassals of me holding the counties the baronies are in. That is, my vassal A is a de jure baron of my count vassal B (so both A and B are my direct vassals); additionally, C is a de jure baron of count D (count D is my direct vassal), but C is instead a vassal of my duke E. Basically, no counts have any of their de jure baronies as vassals, and those baronies are instead either a vassal to me or one of my dukes. The reason for the complexity is taxation.

When a count wants to get a de jure baron back that is a vassal of my duke, the count declares war on the duke, and I am left out of the equation which makes sense since my I won't lose any vassals, a sub vassal will just transfer between my direct vassals. However, when a count wants a de jure baron back that I control, he declares war ON THE BARON and when he wins it I will LOSE A VASSAL despite never being consulted. This would never be allowed for a duke taking back a de jure count, is it just different for a count taking back a baron to prevent abuse?

1 Answer 1


In the case of an "independent" baron under you you are not "consulted" because you don't lose - the baron in question is still your vassal, just not directly. He is considered to be "independent", but under you, so it's this "independence" that's the casus belli. You're always in the picture, always the suzerain(as long as the count/duke waging the de jure war is also your vassal).

Btw you shouldn't keep de jure vassals away from their de jure suzerains, since the latter will dislike you for this.

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