Since the AI in Pokémon Red/Blue was programmed to always use a "super effective" type attack, and Lorelei's lead-Pokémon Dewgong knows Rest (Psychic), which does no damage, this screams for setting up on Dewgong.

Since the type Psychic is super effective against Poison, I came up with this strategy:

  1. Teach a Lv 2 Nidoran♂ the following moves:

    • Toxic
    • Double Team
    • Substitute
    • An attack - preferably one with high PP.
  2. While Lorelei's Dewgong is out:

    • Set up 6 Double Teams
    • Set up Substitute,
    • Hit Dewgong with Toxic
    • Spend turns wasting PP from the 4th move until Dewgong is finished.

From there, keep poisoning the rest of her team with Toxic, keep Substitute up and heal with potions.

Is there another strategy that doesn't rely heavily on avoiding hits?

1 Answer 1


An important consideration in this strategy is that Dewgong can use Rest, healing itself from Toxic. Reapplying Toxic then resets the counter. As opponents in 1st Gen have unlimited PP, this renders stalling for Rest PP impossible. Thus Nidoran cannot KO Dewgong with Toxic.

A workaround is to use a OHKO move as the 4th move. This means that after setting up Double Team + Substitute + X Speed, you can OHKO Dewgong bypassing Rest. NidoranM can achieve this even at level 2 with Horn Drill. As Dewgong spams rest, you can set up 6 X Speeds and X Accuracy to make OHKO moves always hit. The X Speeds, alongside the badge bonus, and high Speed DVs and EPs (to reach 7 base Speed at level 2), enable NidoranM to outspeed and OHKO Dewgong. With the experience gained, it can then outspeed the rest of Lorelei's team including Jynx, her fastest Pokemon, and OHKO them before they move. In fact, with this strategy, the only move NidoranM needs is Horn Drill since the opponent will never attack!

Here's a link to SAJW's video demonstrating this strategy in-game.

  • Oh, what I did not think about is: Rest Resets the toxic "level" AFAIK, so even if you can toxic it, it will be healed fully after it, and the next toxic does only 1/16 health. So Horndrill+xaccuracy+6 x-speed seems to be the only viable strat(at a slightly higher lvl)
    – SAJW
    Mar 25, 2020 at 4:14
  • I've editted the answer accordingly
    – BGamer
    Mar 25, 2020 at 4:33
  • I'm calculating if a traded Ekans with fissure can outspeed (after gaining the levels in the fight) Jynx(Lorelei's fastest Pokémon) with 6 xspeed + badge-bonus of 1.1=4.4 times the speed. Assuming maximum DVs but 0 EVs. Cloyster and Slowbro are slower than Dewgong, so they shouldn't be a problem! I'll let you know, so you can edit your answer.
    – SAJW
    Mar 25, 2020 at 6:46
  • 1
    Jynx Speed stat is 120 (with 8 as Speed DV). In order to 1HKO it with fissure we therefore need to have 121 Speed. 6 x-speeds and the badge-bonus of 1.1 result in 4.4 times the Speed stat of our Pokémon. Dewgong, Cloyster and Slowbro give around 9355 experience (+-2). We use a traded Ekans which is in the medium fast Experience group. Since we start at lvl 5, we already have 125 EP. 125+9355 EP equals to level 21. An Ekans (with max Speed DV) has 34 Speed with lvl 21 and after our 4.4 multiplier we have 149 Speed. Therefore a lvl 5 Ekans with Fissure is all we need!
    – SAJW
    Mar 25, 2020 at 7:01
  • That's indepth! If 122 Speed is all you need to outspeed Jynx, then could a level 2-4 Nidoran Male do the job? There could also be a different measure of just outspeeding Dewgong instead of Jynx, relying on OHKO for Dewgong and Toxic evasion for Jynx.
    – BGamer
    Mar 25, 2020 at 9:31

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .