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In the quest: "In my Time of Need"
Saadia claims:
Kematu claims:
Who's telling the truth? How is it possible to confirm their claims?
The purpose of this quest I think is to make you question which is the right option to take.
It is intentionally unclear.
My logic was this:
I did see this though:
If you accept Kematu's request and help him capture Saadia, you may encounter a group of Thalmor Justiciars in the wild that carry a Justiciar Execution Order with your race and name. This may indicate that Kematu might have been telling the truth and that Saadia truly was a traitor (source needed, Justiciar Execution Orders are normally issued because of the assault on the Thalmor Embassy in the main questline).
Source: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/In_My_Time_of_Need
Kematu might be telling the truth
For these reasons I almost always end up siding with Kematu.
Facts point to Saadia lying about Alik'r cooperating with the Aldmeri Dominion...
I will base this claim not on what Kematu or Saadia has said or done as a person (which might be subjective) but on hard facts.
My assumptions:
Having those assumptions out of the way here are some history facts from "The Great War":
General Decianus was preparing to drive the Aldmeri back from Skaven when he was ordered to march for Cyrodiil. Unwilling to abandon Hammerfell completely, he allowed a great number of "invalids" to be discharged from the Legions before they marched east. These veterans formed the core of the army that eventually drove Lady Arannelya's forces back across the Alik'r late in 174, taking heavy losses on their retreat from harassing attacks by the Alik'r warriors.
We learn that General Decianus left some troops behind referred to in the book as "Alik'r warriors" who kept battling the Aldmeri Dominion when Decianus had to heed the call of emperor Titus Mede II to march to Cyrodiil.
The Emperor encouraged [The Aldmeri Dominion] in their belief that he was preparing to surrender; meanwhile, he gathered his forces to retake the Imperial City. [...] One army, with the legions from Hammerfell under General Decianus, was hidden in the Colovian Highlands near Chorrol.
We learn that General Decianus was directly involved in the retaking of the Imperial City during the Battle of the Red Ring.
In the end, the main Aldmeri army in Cyrodiil was completely destroyed. The Emperor's decision to withdraw from the Imperial City in 4E 174 was bloodily vindicated. Lord Naarifin was kept alive for thirty-three days, hanging from the White-Gold tower. It is not recorded where his body was buried, if it was buried at all. One source claims he was carried off by winged daedra on the thirty-fourth day.
We learn that Lord Naarifin a general of the Aldmeri Dominion was gibbeted at the end of the retaking of the Imperial City.
Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion signed the White-Gold Concordat, ending the Great War. [...] Hammerfell, however, refused to accept the White-Gold Concordat, being unwilling to concede defeat and the loss of so much of their territory. Titus II was forced to officially renounce Hammerfell as an Imperial province in order to preserve the hard-won peace treaty. The Redguards, understandably, looked on this as a betrayal.
We learn that the Redguards refuse to accept the treaty (and are expelled from the empire) and continue to wage war with the Aldmeri Dominion.
In the end, the heroic Redguards fought the Aldmeri Dominion to a standstill, [...] to allow the eventually Second Treaty of Stros M'kai in 4E 180 and the withdrawal of Aldmeri forces from Hammerfell.
We learn that the Aldmeri Dominion were eventually forced to widthdraw from Hammerfell as the war lead to a standstill. Although not explicitly mentioned, judging by the White-Gold Concordat I doubt that the treaty of Stros M'kai left the Aldmeri Dominion empty handed (which might explain Kematu saying that the resistance in Hammerfell is still ongoing).
My Conclusions - Feel free to make your own based on the given facts
I doubt that 21 year is enough to clear up all the bad blood between the altmer and the redguards especially with the redguards being involved in gibbeting one of their more famous generals.
Even though the Aldmeri Dominion could have control over part of Hammerfell after the treaty, I doubt that they would be able to employ Alik'r who were part of the Hammerfell military during the war just a few decades ago.
Since Aldmeri Dominion justiciar parties are freely roaming throughout Skyrim (prisoners in tow), hiring a third party to do the same job seems questionable.
It makes sense that Alik'r warriors are turned away everywhere because they are seen as a military unit of Hammerfell which is no longer part of the empire, having a non-empire military unit march through a city could be seen as potentially dangerous, provocative and bearing heavy implications politically.
Kematu asks you to meet him in Rorikstead. Rorik himself is an old war dog who fought in the Great War. Since he himself has most likely fought alongside redguards from Hammerfell, he might have allowed them to stay in his town as fellow veterans of war. I doubt that Rorik (having fought against the Aldmeri Dominion) would let them stay in his town if he had any suspicions about them making deals with the Thalmor.
I've done this quest both ways.. and I am now convinced the Alik'r are lying.. I just happened to visit the hall of the dead in white run, after helping the Alik'r and what do I find Saadia's burial Urn. She was supposed to be taken alive back to Hammerfell.
The game doesn't tell us who is right here, so we're stuck with the dilemma people face in real life: we have to make the best choice with the information we have.
Ultimately, my decision is to side against the Alik'r (note that is not the same thing as siding with Saadia):
All of the hard evidence is against the Alik'r acting in an acceptable or legitimate fashion, with only Kematu's honeyed words suggesting otherwise. Furthermore, they have already been instructed to cease their activities. As Thane of Whiterun, it is the dragonborn's duty to eliminate the Alik'r for their continued activities against Whiterun hold.
There is no way to verify one or the other as it currently stands in the game.. But here is my take on it for judging the character
So based on that, I usually go with Saadia if I am being a relatively 'good' person... or if I just want all the Alik'r gear to dress up manikins with :)
Okay, here's the facts: Whiterun kicked out Kematu's boys and imprisoned one of their members. In addition one of the bandits at the beginning of the cave say he doesn't like the Alik'r around, while his friend says something like don't complain unless you want a knife in the back. That's pretty compelling evidence against them in my book.
Then, after you slaughter them, Kematu tries his hand at smooth talking, and constantly calls Saadia a liar. Anyone that bases their point solely on another person being a liar, well that's just very dodgy straight off the bat.
As Slade said here, her urn is in Whiterun, if you side with Kematu, meaning that while she might be taken back alive, she gets an execution at some point. And as stated, the Thalmor don't have the right to just kidnap people in Skyrim, they would have to hire someone else to capture her. This is why I believe Saadia.
So to break it down, Kematu's Alik'r are mercenaries that made 2 groups feel threatened, they were most likely hired by the Thalmor to capture Saadia and bring her back, and Kematu lies to you out of desperation in the cave, after you've destroyed his forces. Side with the Alik'r and Saadia will be executed.
I'm going with Saadia, she's not hanging out in a damn cave, even that is pretty friggin suspicious!
I thought this was pretty black and white at first, and sided with Kematu, but as someone previously stated, you find Saadia's burial urn in the hall of the dead in Whiterun. She was supposed to be taken back alive for a trial. One thing that also bothered me was that to find out where Kematu is, you have to visit the Whiterun prison to talk to a captured Alik'r. He never really tells you why he was captured, he just says he has shamed the Alik'r for being captured, they are supposed to be "the best of the best" he says. Best at what? Wishing I hadn't turned her over, but oh well, I don't know if I could have beaten that many Alik'r warriors anyway. Just looking at what they were packing - they had curved swords. Curved. Swords.
Yeah, I'm on Saadia's side, the other thing that made me want to believe her is that if she helped the Aldmeri Dominion she could be fine under their protection, they're pretty freaking strong that and the fact she was a noble and became a tavern wench to live in hiding rather than staying a noble gives some credibility to her defense. Kematu just threatens you with his band of assassins and hopes you'll lead him to her because he knows that you know where she is at that point.
I'll say Kematu is the one to trust. He didn't kill her but she wants you to kill them. Makes sense to me. That she is guilty of something. When Kematu came to Whiterun in search for her, he didn't use force or made a scene.
I was going to side with the Lovely Saadia, sure she brings out a knife, wouldn't you if you knew people were hunting you? Plus I tend to side with the smaller party in almost all cases.
However after reading this I realised, if she has an Urn, with her name on it, it means she was officially/publically killed. No way would somebody slyly murder somebody and then just give her name freely and also pay for her remains to be put in an urn...
As others have stated in comments:
If she was executed as a traitor, her (noble?) family might not want her buried in her ancestral home. – Arkku Nov 30 '15 at 9:49
For example. DON'T SIDE A SPY!!! :)
