# What happens when Trundle uses his ultimate on someone with negative armor?

Suppose, due to armor reduction, someone managed to get negative armor. Trundle's ultimate says:

(Active): Trundle immediately steals health (by dealing magic damage) and a percentage of their armor and magic resistance from his target. Over the next 6 seconds the amount of health, armor, and magic resistance stolen is doubled.

Does Trundle just steal 0 armor? Does he receive negative armor as well? Or is it based off of base values?

If a champion has less than 0 armor, they receive bonus damage. The damage formula:

2-(100/(100-armor))

If Trundle uses his ult on a champion, he lowers their armor by a percent. This prevents him from dropping an enemy's armor below 0 with his ult alone. With a Black Cleaver or other form of armor reduction, it would be possible to do bonus damage (use the ult THEN get stacks on the cleaver!).

Edit: Armor penetration is applied in this order (source):

1. Percent reduction (Bushwhack / Pounce)
2. Flat reduction (The Black Cleaver, Puncturing Taunt, etc)
3. Flat penetration (The Brutalizer, Sunder Mastery, Runes of Desolation)
4. Percent penetration (Last Whisper)
• Trundle steals a percentage of armor, not flat armor. How could this ever cause their armor to go negative? – Invader Skoodge Mar 27 '12 at 15:13
• @StrixVaria, good point. I've edited my answer accordingly. – Ryre Mar 27 '12 at 15:56
• @StrixVaria It would depend on the calculation order. If Trundle hits someone who has Black Cleaver stacks, for example, does Black Cleaver's Armor Reduction (not to be confused with Penetration) apply first (causing him to receive less), or does Trundle's? – Rilgon Arcsinh Mar 27 '12 at 15:58
• @RilgonArcsinh, check the source I provided for mathcrafting armor. I included the relevant bits in the edit. – Ryre Mar 27 '12 at 16:10

I think that this question is more a curiosity than a real need. Trundle is an anti-tank and it would be quite silly using his ultimate on an unarmored squishy hero.

In addition percentage stolen is 15/20/25% and it is usually difficult to cause an enemy champion to have negative armor values lesser than -20. In this case have a 0 armor buff or a -3/-4/-5 armor debuff is quite irrelevant in terms of gameplay.

Look here

Accordingly, there is no such thing as negative armor in LoL.

These attacks will deal damage as though your target has less armor than he really does, but will never bring an opponent below 0 armor. For example, if a target has 20 armor and you have 5 armor penetration, you would deal damage as though the target had 15 armor. If you had 50 armor penetration against the same target, you would deal damage as though he had 0 armor.

• Armor penetration and armor reduction work differently. There is such a thing as negative armor, but there is not such a thing as penetrating to the point that armor is effectively negative. – Invader Skoodge Mar 28 '12 at 11:24