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Vayne's Q; Tumble, is a short CD, short distance dash, that increases her damage for her next shot. How long is the animation, in seconds?

The sub-question is, will Vayne hit a point when tumbling lowers your DPS, because of the tumble animation taking time? i.e. Could she have too high an attack speed, and you deal more damage by just continuing to shoot and not bother with Tumble?

Does using tumble always no matter the attackspeed increase your damage?

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  • the tumble is used more for gap-closing than damage when you reach that point in your build, so it's always relevant IMO. Not to mention what happens when you are Ulting
    – user41604
    Commented Apr 10, 2013 at 12:54
  • Yes I know, I am asking from a clear theoretical reason though. And with that I am curious on how long the tumble animation is.
    – Wertilq
    Commented Apr 10, 2013 at 12:58
  • You often see players shooting in a face-off and you see Vayne tumbling to get that bonus damage from her Tumble. I can agree that your autoattack DPS can end up higher with higher AS than your DPS with Tumble damage bonus.
    – Joetjah
    Commented Apr 10, 2013 at 13:50
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    Very interesting question. I get that you ask a specific thing and you want the time of the animation (which I don't know yet) but I just like to point out that like Marco Leblanc said I don't think that practically there will ever be a point where your overall dps will render tumble useless. Because it has various useful applications besides the extra damage. 1) Gap Closing, 2) Spell Dodging (mid fight), 3) Disorientation of the Opponent (even more so when you have Ult on and become stealthed). A counter example is Caitlyn's Piltover Peacemaker which is almost useless after a certain point.
    – xray1986
    Commented Apr 10, 2013 at 14:14
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    @Joetjah In order not to stretch it out on my part. I 'd like to clarify that I 'd like to take back the useless part of my first comment. It's not useless. For example sometimes its worth doing it if you are in a teamfight and you want to dmg more than one opponent. But also take into consideration that for that short time you channel to do it you might miss out on 2 auto attacks that would give you 2 extra stacks on you passive as well. So if you're really after the aoe its worth it.But if you want the most possible dps or if you want to kill someone fast, or if you're chasing, or...its not
    – xray1986
    Commented Apr 11, 2013 at 7:37

2 Answers 2

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I'm just theorycrafting here. Say the Tumble animation takes 0.5 second. The Attack Speed stands for the number of attacks fired per second. I'm also presuming the Tumble is executed perfectly after firing a shot to minimalise 'auto-attack-cooldown'.

Tumble will increase your next attack's damage with 30/35/40/45/50%. That would mean Tumble lets Vayne do 1.3/1.35/1.4/1.45/1.5 attack in one shot, in one half a second.

I'm gonna take a long fight into account, where Vayne has the time to Tumble twice. That would mean Vayne does 2.6/2.7/2.8/2.9/3 attacks in a second.

So, if we are taking in account that NO damage boosts are used, for example from Sheen's proc, then you'll need an Attack Speed of 2.6/2.7/2.8/2.9/3 depending on Tumble's level to match the damage output.

This is not calculating armor and armor penetration. That means the actual amount will pretty much always be lower. If you have Trinity Force, that amount will be considerly higher again. That item will net you another 0.5 on top of your shot per time, meaning the Attack Speed would have to be higher then 3.1/3.2/3.3/3.4/3.5. Again, this is actually lower because of the Armor stat.

Also, I'll repeat, I'm just theorycrafting and presuming perfect conditions and a Tumble duration of 0.5 seconds. But, the maximum Attack Speed is 2.5, which is actually met on the highest level of Tumble when Tumble would take a whole second. And I doubt you'll achieve the maximum Attack Speed in a game often. Then again, I'll repeat myself for the 3th time and tell you Armor will mess with the theory.

As a conclusion, I dare say you should dance around with Tumble to achieve maximum DPS, especially with helpfull items that proc spell casts.

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    Good math, but you're not taking into account silver bolts. Not that it really matters, because the tumble animation feels a bit less than .5 seconds to me, and even if it were, it caps the attack speed for that single shot to 2, rather than 2.5. So it's vanishingly unlikely that not tumbling would be superior, unless the target is building lots of health/armour, and you're relying on Silver Bolts
    – Sconibulus
    Commented Apr 10, 2013 at 17:48
  • I've left more stuff out of the math for this one, it was pure theorycrafting. You are right about the silver bolts. I don't understand the comment about the AS being 2 instead of 2.5 though. Can you elaborate on that?
    – Joetjah
    Commented Apr 10, 2013 at 18:14
  • You forgot that tumble doesn't add 50% damage, it adds 50% of total AD as bonus damage, in the end. That means when you crit, the damage is NOT boosted.
    – Wertilq
    Commented Apr 10, 2013 at 18:17
  • I didn't count crithits anywhere...But the AS of Tumbling when it would take a whole second, is 1.5. So I made a mistake there though. It's not 2 nor 2.5.
    – Joetjah
    Commented Apr 10, 2013 at 18:21
  • Or am I wrong? I had some coffee and I don't seem to grasp this anymore, haha...
    – Joetjah
    Commented Apr 10, 2013 at 18:21
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If you're right up to an obstacle and tumble in it's direction, the tumble's animation will stop sooner. This means that you get a much smaller "down-time" of attacking and is actually quite effective for boosting DPS. This is important to consider while doing objectives such as dragon and baron. You just sit next to a wall and tumble to reset the attack timer. If done perfectly it will always increase your DPS.

Although, when you tumble for the full length, you have to take AS into account.

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  • "you have to take AS into account"... yea, that's the point of whole the question. At which point do you hit the threshold?
    – Wertilq
    Commented Jun 16, 2013 at 21:19

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