I currently hold two duchies. If I give one of my sons a county in one of the duchies, then he becomes my vassal, right? And if that duchy is then inherited by my other son, then one of my sons will be vassal to the other, right? Except that both of my sons will be dukes – each inherits one duchy – and one duke can't be vassal to another!

Taking it further, what if I give each son a county inside the duchy that the other son will inherit? When I die, each should become the other's vassal!

1 Answer 1


It's really not that complicated. They won't be each other's vassals at all because de jure (in law) is not de facto (in fact).

Let's assume you're playing in Ireland and you're the Duke of Leinster and Meath, with Leinster being your primary title. Let's examine 3 scenarios:

  • The default, assuming no sons get landed.
    • First son gets Leinster, second son gets Meath.
  • Your first scenario. Let's assume you give your first son the county of Dublin in Meath.
    • First son still gets Leinster, but also the county of Dublin. Since he has 50% of the counties in Meath, he can usurp the duchy from his brother.
    • Second son still gets Meath, but only the county of Kildare he's pissed off because his brother has one of his de jure counties. In addition to his normally strong claim to his brother's territory due to the succession law, he also has a de jure claim and cassus belli for Dublin.
  • Your second scenario. In addition to the first scenario, let's assume you gave Ossory in Leinster to your second son.
    • First son still gets Leinster, but only gets the counties of Leinster and Dublin.
    • Second son still gets Meath, but gets the counties of Kildare and Ossory.
    • Each could actually usurp the other's duchy in this case, and is generally in the same position as the second son in the first scenario.

Ok, maybe I lied - it is a little complicated.

  • 2
    Note that as of the 1.10 patch you need 51% of a duchy to usurp (or create), so Leinster could not usurp Meath in the second bullet and neither could in the third. (Expect war. And, sadly, no more building Ireland by strategically usurping your way through two-county duchies.) Commented Jun 12, 2013 at 17:02
  • Ah, I hadn't noticed that change, but I guess it makes sense. I guess the official route to things like that is now the "Become King of ____" ambition?
    – atreusmonk
    Commented Jun 12, 2013 at 18:08
  • The "Become King" ambition doesn't seem to give you any advantages or change any rules unless you're pagan - it just gives you a prestige boost if you succeed, like most of the other ambitions.
    – Josh
    Commented Jun 12, 2013 at 18:12
  • Ok, I guess this makes sense. I posted a followup question at gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/120157
    – Josh
    Commented Jun 12, 2013 at 18:12

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