I mained ROB in brawl and now I'm maining him in Smash 4.

In brawl one of the best ways I found to get kills was getting someone off the edge and using my forward aerial over and over, with second jump and sometimes with the upB as well. It wasn't a true combo but it was faster than most other characters could respond to (a frame trap).

There are a few factors that I suspect may be the cause but I'm not sure. The hitbox looks to be much higher than in brawl, and perhaps the angle it launches you at is harder to follow up on. But I would have thought that the much higher hitstun would mean this is much more forgiving than in brawl.


The hitbox is no longer lingering like it was in brawl, so you have to time it better

I was in the middle of asking this question when I think I realised the answer, but I thought I would post it here anyway because it's interesting.

Here's the brawl frame data:

damage             10, 6
hits on frames     6-7, 8-15
final active frame 32
angle              361 (sakurai angle)
base knockback     30
knockback growth   90
landing lag        12
autocancel         25>


and here's smash 4:

damage             7
hits on frames     6-7
final active frame 36
angle              361 (sakurai angle)
base knockback     30
knockback growth   90
landing lag        15
autocancel         25>

The biggest difference seems to be the active frames. In Brawl, the move hit on frames 6-17, a total of 12 frames. In Smash 4, it hits on frames 6 and 7 only, a total of 2 frames. The brawl hitbox lingered for a lot longer than in Smash 4 so my buffered inputs would always land. Now I will have to actually learn how to time these hits.

Additionally, in brawl, when the lingering hitbox was there, if it managed to land the hit on the last active frame (frame 15), i could land another hit only 23 frames later, whereas now, the hitbox is only active up to frame 7, so i have to wait 35 frames before i can land another hit at best.

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    I think the angle for Brawl's ROB is the Sakurai angle (361) as well, but I'm not 100% certain. If you think it would be useful to know, I can go and check it from the game data. At any rate, it was indeed easier to hit with and control the strength of because of the lingering hitbox. – mmKALLL Mar 18 '16 at 11:26
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    There's a lot of brawl data that never got put up anywhere unfortunately, like full length hitbox gifs. I figured it was the sakurai angle as well. I think another reason is that the upB works differently now - you can't attack while it's still going any more like you could in brawl. – Nacht - Reinstate Monica Mar 19 '16 at 9:22
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    Well, it's a good thing I have the tools to look that stuff up. Here's ROB's f-air in Brawl (numbers in decimal): Hits in angle 361 on frames 6-7, with damage 10, KBG 90, BKB 30; hits in angle 361 on frames 8-15, with damage 6, KBG 90, BKB 30. In other words, it seems like they just removed the lingering hitbox altogether. However, I'm not familiar with Smash 4's ROB, so I don't know about the differences in practice. Additionally, looks like my data doesn't agree with yours; the hitboxes might come out a frame later than the timers in the data tell they do, but there's still a difference... – mmKALLL Mar 19 '16 at 12:02
  • i got mine from here so if yours is straight from the game id trust that more: kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/R.O.B – Nacht - Reinstate Monica Mar 19 '16 at 12:10
  • Note that my data is for Brawl, but that looks like a fairly trustworthy site for Smash 4 data. Better than most, for sure. However, your Brawl data looks like it's a bit off; there shouldn't be any regional differences either. – mmKALLL Mar 20 '16 at 20:16

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